NHNE Near-Death Experience Network
Exploring all aspects of the near-death experience.
Book Summary: 'Evidence Of The Afterlife'
EDITOR'S COMMENT:
I first heard about near-death experiences from the man who inspired the near-death movement. His name was Dr. George Ritchie. I heard him tell his remarkable near-death story at the Association for Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce's organization) in the late 1970's. A well-known and respected doctor, Ritchie was humble, sincere, devout, and unpretentious. With self-effacing humor, he described how, at the age of twenty, he had died in an Army hospital. While his body lay dead in the hospital's morgue for nine minutes, Ritchie had a dramatic encounter with Jesus, who guided him through a series of difficult to watch, intensely instructive experiences. With Jesus at his side, Ritchie moved from hellish realms to heavenly ones, learning what kind of attitudes and behaviors determined where souls ended up after they died.
The experience completely changed Ritchie. It also affected the lives of thousands of others who either heard Ritchie speak, or read about his mesmerizing experience in "Return From Tomorrow".
A brief synopsis of Ritchie's near-death experience can be found here.
One of the people who was captivated by Ritchie's story was a young doctor named Raymond Moody. Inspired by Ritchie's near-death experience, Moody became the first medical doctor to systematically study near-death experiences and, later, published the groundbreaking book, "Life After Life". Published in 1975, Moody's book coined the term "near-death experience" (NDE) and launched the modern near-death movement. Since then, a growing legion of researchers, books, websites, and studies have joined the quest to understand this enigmatic experience.
This report is about an important new book in the maturing, ever-expanding field of near-death research. Called "Evidence of the Afterlife", it summarizes the largest scientific study of the near-death experience ever presented. Written by Dr. Jeffrey Long, Evidence of the Afterlife is based on 613 near-death experiences, which were selected from over 1300 NDEs from all age groups, races, and religious affiliations, from all over the world. Along with providing new evidence that strengthens established views of NDEs, this study breaks new ground by insisting that near-death experiences are essentially the same for all human beings, regardless of their age, gender, personal beliefs, and cultural conditioning.
Before I highlight the key findings of Long's work, I want to emphasize another breakthrough discovery -- one which has important ramifications for everyone.
It is well known that near-death experiences often transform those who have them -- and Long's book contains a long list of the kind of changes that NDErs typically experience.
What is less well known, and what I believe should be of great interest to human beings everywhere, is that there is growing evidence that simply learning about near-death experiences can have similar effects on people who have not had an NDE.
Here are two quotes that illustrate the transformational effects of indirect encounters with NDEs -- one from Long, and the other one from Stanley Krippner, commenting on Kenneth Ring's book "Lessons from the Light":
"For me personally, I'm showing more love to others now than before I started my near-death-experience studies. My understanding of near-death experiences has made me a better doctor. I face life with more courage and confidence. I believe NDErs really do bring back a piece of the afterlife. When NDErs share their remarkable experiences, I believe a piece of the afterlife, in some mysterious way, becomes available to us all." -- Jeffrey Long, author of Evidence of the Afterlife
"In this remarkable book, Ring presents evidence that merely learning about the near-death experience has similar effects to those reported by people who actually have had near-death experiences." -- Stanley Krippner, writing about Kenneth Ring's book Lessons from the Light
If you are a human being interested in knowing more about why you are alive, now, on this planet; if you are a human being wondering how you can live the fullest, happiest, most meaningful life possible; if you are interested in knowing what is likely to happen to you, your family, and your friends when death comes calling; if you are interested in tapping into the blissful state of consciousness that NDErs report surrounds us all the time and awaits us in the afterlife; and if you are interested in seemingly miraculous, yet deeply pragmatic ways to help the human race make a radical leap in consciousness before we destroy ourselves and turn Earth into a wasteland, then NDEs is a topic worth paying attention to.
Along with emphasizing the transformational quality of learning more about NDEs, it's important to emphasize that near-death experiences are no longer restricted to the domains of religion, philosophy, and water-cooler speculation. They are, instead, a worldwide phenomenon that has been subjected to increasingly robust scientific scrutiny. The number of people reporting NDEs is also increasing all over the world, possibly exponentially. It is currently estimated that as much as five percent of the U.S. population has had a near-death experience. The study that I am about to summarize is based on NDEs recorded in more than twenty languages, which utilized over 250 volunteers to translate them. It is also the largest study of young children ever published.
The number of people involved, along with the increasing careful way that near-death experiences are being collected, analyzed, and reported, is, simply put, staggering. The near-death experience is no longer an obscure, isolated topic that can be trivialized or ignored. It is, instead, a global phenomenon that is being experienced by increasing numbers of people who report exceedingly similar experiences.
In my view, something very important is happening here. We may well be on the verge of having some of humankind's oldest, most perplexing questions answered -- not by iconic mystics, savant-like geniuses, or teams of scientific experts, but by you and I learning how to plug ourselves directly into the Source from which we come.
In short, I believe this subject deserves our utmost attention and hope you will take the time to read this report, purchase the book it summarizes, and share it all with family and friends!
With Love & Best Wishes,
David Sunfellow
P.S. Along with expressing my enthusiasm for this subject, let me also add a note of caution.
While the growing phenomenon of near-death experiences provides us with many things to be hopeful about, there are also some very important questions that remain to be answered. What's up with the 1 to 15 percent of NDEs that are hellish and/or distressing? How can some people, who reportedly have genuine NDEs, remain trapped in wounded, conflict-ridden, ego-driven lives and personalities? And how is it that some of the most well-known authorities in the near-death world end up attacking one another (and the movement itself) with unapologetic abandon -- apparently with little or no regard for a life review that will replay their words and deeds from the perspective of those who were hurt by them?
(To take a peek into the dark side of the near-death movement, you can read Raymond Moody's book, "The Last Laugh" -- a strange, convoluted, annoying book that explores the "show business" side of the near-death movement, as well as some of its most controversial celebrities.)
That's a short way of saying that while I think it is very important for us to deeply ponder the power and possibilities of NDEs, I also want to be sure we keep a sharp lookout for the unseen, the disowned, the ignored, the embellished, the unexpected, the deep rumblings that remind us there is far more to us -- and God, life, existence -- than can be wrapped up in overly simplistic packages. Whatever the ultimate truth turns out to be about near-death experiences, I think we can expect big surprises as we journey further and further into this vast, largely uncharted frontier.
............
RELATED LINKS:
NHNE's Near-Death Resource Center & Social Network
Evidence Of The Afterlife: The Science Of Near-Death Experiences
By Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry
Near Death Experience Research Foundation
Lessons From The Light: What We Can Learn From The Near-Death Experience
By Kenneth Ring and Evelyn Elsaesser Valarino
Life After Life
By Raymond Moody
Return From Tomorrow
By Dr. George Ritchie
Ordered To Return: My Life After Dying
By Dr. George Ritchie and Ian Stevenson
............
EVIDENCE OF THE AFTERLIFE: THE SCIENCE OF NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES
By Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry
QUOTES FROM EVIDENCE OF THE AFTERLIFE
"The core NDE experience is the same all over the world. Whether it's a near-death experience of a Hindu in India, a Muslim in Egypt, or a Christian in the United States, the same core elements are present in all, including out-of-body experience, tunnel experience, feelings of peace, beings of light, a life review, reluctance to return, and transformation after the NDE. In short, the experience of dying appears similar among all humans, no matter where they live."
"Preexisting cultural beliefs do not significantly influence the content of NDEs. Near-death experiences from around the world appear to have similar content regardless of the culture of the country that the NDErs live in."
"The results of the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) study clearly indicate remarkable consistency among NDE case studies. This study finds that what people discovered during their near-death experience about God, love, afterlife, reason for our earthly existence, earthly hardships, forgiveness, and many other concepts is strikingly consistent across cultures, races, and creeds. Also, these discoveries are generally not what would have been expected from preexisting societal beliefs, religious teachings, or any other source of earthly knowledge."
"By scientifically studying the more than 1,300 cases shared with NDERF, I believe that the nine lines of evidence presented in this book all converge on one central point: There is life after death."
"I have studied thousands of near-death experiences. I have carefully considered the evidence NDEs present regarding the existence of an afterlife. I believe, without a shadow of a doubt that there is life after physical death."
"Some research indicates that as much as 5 percent of the U.S. Population has had a near-death experience."
"Generaly speaking, NDErs who have life reviews view themselves from a third-person perspective. They watch themselves interacting with the people in their lives. They see how they treated others and often step into the other person's place so they know how that person felt when interacting with them."
"A spiritual being sometimes accompanies the person who is having the life review. This being may serve as a kind of loving guide, assessing the life review from a higher spiritual plane as the NDEr watches, discussing the spiritual ramifications of the events of the NDEr's life. The being's comments may help the NDEr put his or her life into perspective. Near-death experiencers almost never describe feeling negatively judged by this spiritual being, no matter how unkind they were up to that point in their lives. Near-death experiencers who reviewed many of their own prior cruel actions often express great relief that they were not negatively judged during their NDEs."
"Near-death experiencers generally noted that they were the ones who judged themselves. During the process they saw the good and bad, the cause and effect of their choices. Many reported that they had a review of feelings rather than a review of visual events."
"Many NDErs say that the life review, of all the elements of the NDE, was by far the greatest catalyst for change. A life review allows NDErs to relive their own lives, mistakes and all. It also gives them a chance to evaluate themselves on their life performance. Many things that seemed insignificant at the time -- a small kindness, for instance -- turn out to be significant in their own or another person's life. People realize they became angry over things that were not important or that they placed too much significance on unimportant things."
"The life review helps the NDEr understand his or her purpose in life."
"Knowledge and love are two elements that we take with us when we die. As a result, life reviews are often one of the most transformative elements of the NDE. Those who have powerful life reviews tend to revere both knowledge and love after their NDE."
"The Kelly study found that 95 percent of the deceased individuals encountered were relatives, while only 5 percent were friends or acquaintances. Only 4 percent of the NDErs in the study met beings who were alive at the time of the NDE. Other studies have shown that in dreams or hallucinations, the beings encountered are much more likely to be people who are still living."
"Encounters with the deceased loved ones are almost always joyous reunions."
"Although many deceased loved ones prior to death were elderly and sometimes disfigured by arthritis or other chronic illnesses, the deceased in the near-death experience are virtually always the picture of perfect health and may appear younger -- even decades younger -- than they did at the time of death. Those who died as very young children may appear older. But even if the deceased appear to be a very different age than when they died, the NDEr still recognizes them."
"People may encounter in their near-death experience a being who seems familiar but whose identity is unknown during the NDE... Most of the time... unfamiliar beings turn out to be family members from the past."
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THE TWELVE ELEMENTS OF NDEs:
According to Evidence of the Afterlife, no two near-death experiences are identical. When, however, many near-death experiences are studied, a common pattern of elements emerges, which usually occur in consistent order. Here is a list of the twelve main NDE elements that have been identified. Each element is followed by a number indicating what percentage of the 613 people included in the Evidence of the Afterlife study experienced the element in question. Significantly, only 33.8 percent reported passing into of through a tunnel, and only 22.2 percent said they experienced a life review.
1. Out-of-body experience (OBE): Separation of consciousness from the physical body - 75.4 percent
2. Heightened senses - 74.4 percent
3. Intense and generally positive emotions or feelings - 76.2 percent
4. Passing into or through a tunnel - 33.8 percent
5. Encountering a mystical or brilliant light - 64.6 percent
6. Encountering other beings, either mystical beings or deceased relatives or friends - 57.3 percent
7. A sense of alteration of time and space - 60.5 percent
8. Life review - 22.2 percent
9. Encountering unworldly ("heavenly") realms - 40.6 percent
10. Encountering or learning special knowledge - 56 percent (31.5 percent answered that they felt they understood everything "about the universe"; 31.3 percent felt they understood everything "about myself and others")
11. Encountering a boundary or barrier - 31 percent
12. Return to the body, either voluntary or involuntary - 58.5 percent
.............
Based on the NDEs that Long studied, Long developed "nine lines of reasoning" that he believes PROVES the existence of life after death. Here are Long's nine lines, with an additional category added by me:
LONG'S NINE LINES OF EVIDENCE
1. The level of consciousness and alertness during NDEs is usually greater than they experience during their everyday life even though NDEs generally occur while unconscious or clinically dead. The elements in NDEs generally follow a consistent and logical and order.
2. What NDErs see and hear in the out of body state during their NDEs is generally realistic, and often verified later by the NDErs or others as real.
3. Normal or super-normal vision occurs in NDEs among those with significantly impaired vision or even legal blindness. Several NDErs who were blind from birth have reported highly visual NDEs.
4. Typical NDEs occur under general anesthesia at a time when conscious experience should be impossible.
5. Life reviews in NDEs include real events that took place in the NDErs lives, even if the events had been forgotten.
6. When NDErs encounter beings they knew from their earthly life, they are virtually always deceased, and usually deceased relatives.
7. The NDEs of children, including very young children, are strikingly similar to the NDEs of older children and adults.
8. NDEs appear strikingly consistent around the world. Many NDEs from non-Western countries are very similar to typical Western NDEs.
9. Changes in the lives of NDErs after their experiences, the NDE aftereffects, are common. Aftereffects are often powerful, lasting, and the changes follow a consistent pattern.
Aftereffects include:
- Decreased fear of death
- Increased belief in the afterlife
- A stronger sense of spirituality
- A sense of God's presence
- An awareness of the meaning and purpose of life
- A belief in the sacredness of life
- A greater appreciation of life
- A reduced interest in material gain or status
- Seek out helping or healing professions
- 45 percent reported psychic, paranormal, or other special gifts
- People with very serious illnesses, both physical and mental, believe they were healed
- Increasingly loving and accepting of themselves
- More self confidence
- Increased awareness of the needs of others and a willingness to reach out to them
- May end negative and unloving relationships, and seek out positive and loving relationships
- Increasing capacities for love and compassion can result in stronger marriages and relationships
- Increased intelligence (at least in children)
According to Long, "you can't fake the effects of a near-death experience."
73.1 percent reported that their lives had changed significantly as the result of their NDE. Long also reports that "it takes as long as seven years or more for a person who has had a near-death experience to fully integrate into their life the changes that resulted from the experience."
A line of evidence that I believe should have been included, but wasn't:
10. Remarkably accurate, long-term memories of NDEs
Not included in the above nine lines of evidence mentioned above, is another peculiar feature of the near-death experience that I believe should have been included. And that is the curious fact that unlike normal human memories, which are distorted over time, near-death experiences are not "embellished or diminished." This includes both children, who retell their near-death experiences as adults, as well as adults who retell their stories decades after the experience. Long cites several different studies, of both children and adults, that support this important conclusion. Writes Long, "the striking ability of near-death experiences to consistently recall in great detail their experiences, even decades later, is a testament to the power of the near-death experience. It is a unique and remarkable state of consciousness."
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TWO ESPECIALLY INTERESTING NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES
JONATHAN R'S NDE
Original Link
Going into the operating room I had an unusual amount of peace. I was joking with the staff and doctors. I had no fear at all. I remember counting backwards from 10, but don't remember what number I got to. It was several days later that I began to remember what happened during the operation. And only a few days ago I first shared it with my wife in fear of being considered a nut.
I remember standing about 10 feet up and 10 feet to the side of my body on the table. A person was standing next to me, but I didn't look at him/her. I had no fear, or questions to ask, I just observed.
Around the table were at least a dozen nurses and doctors. But what was so emotional was the presence of white people that I can only describe as angels. Each angel was guiding the hands of the staff they were standing next to.
I heard no noise, no voices, no music. It was peacefully quiet.
I don't remember details to specific, such as what tools were used, or the exact position of my body, but only because I was focused so much on the angels guiding the staff in everything they did, from walking, to the use of the tools within my chest cavity.
Even after the operation, I still had an unusual peace and no fear. The doctor said it was the best operation he had ever gone through, there were no problems at all, and he was impressed at my rate of recovery.
I was released from the hospital only 14 days after having my chest opened, deflated lungs, and patched esophagus.
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ANITA M'S NDE
Original Link
I had cancer (Hodgkin's Lymphoma), and on this morning, I could not move. My husband rushed me to hospital, where, after doing scans, they diagnosed me with grade 4B lymphoma (the highest grade). The senior oncologist looked at my report and told my husband that it was too late, and that my organs were now shutting down. I only had 36 hours to live. However, the oncologist said he would do whatever he could but prepared my husband that I would most likely not make it, as my organs were no longer functioning. They started me on a chemotherapy drip as well as oxygen, and then they started to take tests, particularly on my organ functions, so that they could determine what drugs to use.
I was drifting in and out of consciousness during this time, and I could feel my spirit actually leaving my body. I saw and heard the conversations between my husband and the doctors taking place outside my room, about 40 feet away down a hallway. I was later able to verify this conversation to my shocked husband. Then I actually "crossed over" to another dimension, where I was engulfed in a total feeling of love. I also experienced extreme clarity of why I had the cancer, why I had come into this life in the first place, what role everyone in my family played in my life in the grand scheme of things, and generally how life works. The clarity and understanding I obtained in this state is almost indescribable. Words seem to limit the experience -- I was at a place where I understood how much more there is than what we are able to conceive in our 3-dimensional world. I realized what a gift life was, and that I was surrounded by loving spiritual beings, who were always around me even when I did not know it.
The amount of love I felt was overwhelming, and from this perspective, I knew how powerful I am, and saw the amazing possibilities we as humans are capable of achieving during a physical life. I found out that my purpose now would be to live "heaven on earth" using this new understanding, and also to share this knowledge with other people. However I had the choice of whether to come back into life, or go towards death. I was made to understand that it was not my time, but I always had the choice, and if I chose death, I would not be experiencing a lot of the gifts that the rest of my life still held in store. One of the things I wanted to know was that if I chose life, would I have to come back to this sick body, because my body was very, very sick and the organs had stopped functioning. I was then made to understand that if I chose life, my body would heal very quickly. I would see a difference in not months or weeks, but days!
I was shown how illnesses start on an energetic level before they become physical. If I chose to go into life, the cancer would be gone from my energy, and my physical body would catch up very quickly. I then understood that when people have medical treatments for illnesses, it rids the illness only from their body but not from their energy so the illness returns. I realized if I went back, it would be with a very healthy energy. Then the physical body would catch up to the energetic conditions very quickly and permanently. I was given the understanding that this applies to anything, not only illnesses -- physical conditions, psychological conditions, etc. I was "shown" that everything going on in our lives was dependant on this energy around us, created by us. Nothing was solid -- we created our surroundings, our conditions, etc. depending where this "energy" was at. The clarity I received around how we get what we do was phenomenal! It's all about where we are energetically. I was made to feel that I was going to see "proof" of this first hand if I returned back to my body.
I know I was drifting in and out between the two worlds, but every time I drifted into the "other side", I was shown more and more scenes. There was one which showed how my life had touched all the people in it -- it was sort of like a tapestry and showed how I affected everyone's lives around me. There was another which showed my brother on a plane, having heard the news I was dying, coming to see me (this was verified to me as when I started to come round, my brother was there, having just got off a plane). I then saw a glimpse of my brother and me and somehow seemed to understand it was a previous life, where I was much older than him and was like a mother to him (in this life, he is older than me). I saw in that life I was very protective towards him. I suddenly became aware he was on the plane to come and see me, and felt "I can't do this to him -- can't let him come and see me dead". Then I also saw how my husband's purpose was linked to mine, and how we had decided to come and experience this life together. If I went, he would probably follow soon after.
I was made to understand that, as tests had been taken for my organ functions (and the results were not out yet), that if I chose life, the results would show that my organs were functioning normally. If I chose death, the results would show organ failure as the cause of death, due to cancer. I was able to change the outcome of the tests by my choice!
I made my choice, and as I started to wake up (in a very confused state, as I could not at that time tell which side of the veil I was on), the doctors came rushing into the room with big smiles on their faces saying to my family "Good news -- we got the results and her organs are functioning -- we can't believe it!! Her body really did seem like it had shut down!"
After that, I began to recover rapidly. The doctors had been waiting for me to become stable before doing a lymph node biopsy to track the type of cancer cells, and they could not even find a lymph node big enough to suggest cancer (upon entering the hospital my body was filled with swollen lymph nodes). They did a bone marrow biopsy, again to find the cancer activity so they could adjust the chemotherapy according to the disease, and there wasn't any in the bone marrow. The doctors were very confused, but put it down to me suddenly responding to the chemo. Because they themselves were unable to understand what was going on, they made me undergo test after test, all of which I passed with flying colors, and clearing every test empowered me even more! I had a full body scan, and because they could not find anything, they made the radiologist repeat it again!!!!
Because of my experience, I am now sharing with everyone I know that miracles are possible in your life every day. After what I have seen, I realize that absolutely anything is possible, and that we did not come here to suffer. Life is supposed to be great, and we are very, very loved. The way I look at life has changed dramatically, and I am so glad to have been given a second chance to experience "heaven on earth".
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The Near Death Experience Research Foundation presently contains over 2000 full-text published NDE accounts, with more being added. Current NDEs are located here.
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If you would like to explore NDEs further with fans and friends of NHNE, come join NHNE's Near-Death Resource Center & Social Network:
http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/
I first heard about near-death experiences from the man who inspired the near-death movement. His name was Dr. George Ritchie. I heard him tell his remarkable near-death story at the Association for Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce's organization) in the late 1970's. A well-known and respected doctor, Ritchie was humble, sincere, devout, and unpretentious. With self-effacing humor, he described how, at the age of twenty, he had died in an Army hospital. While his body lay dead in the hospital's morgue for nine minutes, Ritchie had a dramatic encounter with Jesus, who guided him through a series of difficult to watch, intensely instructive experiences. With Jesus at his side, Ritchie moved from hellish realms to heavenly ones, learning what kind of attitudes and behaviors determined where souls ended up after they died.
The experience completely changed Ritchie. It also affected the lives of thousands of others who either heard Ritchie speak, or read about his mesmerizing experience in "Return From Tomorrow".
A brief synopsis of Ritchie's near-death experience can be found here.
One of the people who was captivated by Ritchie's story was a young doctor named Raymond Moody. Inspired by Ritchie's near-death experience, Moody became the first medical doctor to systematically study near-death experiences and, later, published the groundbreaking book, "Life After Life". Published in 1975, Moody's book coined the term "near-death experience" (NDE) and launched the modern near-death movement. Since then, a growing legion of researchers, books, websites, and studies have joined the quest to understand this enigmatic experience.
This report is about an important new book in the maturing, ever-expanding field of near-death research. Called "Evidence of the Afterlife", it summarizes the largest scientific study of the near-death experience ever presented. Written by Dr. Jeffrey Long, Evidence of the Afterlife is based on 613 near-death experiences, which were selected from over 1300 NDEs from all age groups, races, and religious affiliations, from all over the world. Along with providing new evidence that strengthens established views of NDEs, this study breaks new ground by insisting that near-death experiences are essentially the same for all human beings, regardless of their age, gender, personal beliefs, and cultural conditioning.
Before I highlight the key findings of Long's work, I want to emphasize another breakthrough discovery -- one which has important ramifications for everyone.
It is well known that near-death experiences often transform those who have them -- and Long's book contains a long list of the kind of changes that NDErs typically experience.
What is less well known, and what I believe should be of great interest to human beings everywhere, is that there is growing evidence that simply learning about near-death experiences can have similar effects on people who have not had an NDE.
Here are two quotes that illustrate the transformational effects of indirect encounters with NDEs -- one from Long, and the other one from Stanley Krippner, commenting on Kenneth Ring's book "Lessons from the Light":
"For me personally, I'm showing more love to others now than before I started my near-death-experience studies. My understanding of near-death experiences has made me a better doctor. I face life with more courage and confidence. I believe NDErs really do bring back a piece of the afterlife. When NDErs share their remarkable experiences, I believe a piece of the afterlife, in some mysterious way, becomes available to us all." -- Jeffrey Long, author of Evidence of the Afterlife
"In this remarkable book, Ring presents evidence that merely learning about the near-death experience has similar effects to those reported by people who actually have had near-death experiences." -- Stanley Krippner, writing about Kenneth Ring's book Lessons from the Light
If you are a human being interested in knowing more about why you are alive, now, on this planet; if you are a human being wondering how you can live the fullest, happiest, most meaningful life possible; if you are interested in knowing what is likely to happen to you, your family, and your friends when death comes calling; if you are interested in tapping into the blissful state of consciousness that NDErs report surrounds us all the time and awaits us in the afterlife; and if you are interested in seemingly miraculous, yet deeply pragmatic ways to help the human race make a radical leap in consciousness before we destroy ourselves and turn Earth into a wasteland, then NDEs is a topic worth paying attention to.
Along with emphasizing the transformational quality of learning more about NDEs, it's important to emphasize that near-death experiences are no longer restricted to the domains of religion, philosophy, and water-cooler speculation. They are, instead, a worldwide phenomenon that has been subjected to increasingly robust scientific scrutiny. The number of people reporting NDEs is also increasing all over the world, possibly exponentially. It is currently estimated that as much as five percent of the U.S. population has had a near-death experience. The study that I am about to summarize is based on NDEs recorded in more than twenty languages, which utilized over 250 volunteers to translate them. It is also the largest study of young children ever published.
The number of people involved, along with the increasing careful way that near-death experiences are being collected, analyzed, and reported, is, simply put, staggering. The near-death experience is no longer an obscure, isolated topic that can be trivialized or ignored. It is, instead, a global phenomenon that is being experienced by increasing numbers of people who report exceedingly similar experiences.
In my view, something very important is happening here. We may well be on the verge of having some of humankind's oldest, most perplexing questions answered -- not by iconic mystics, savant-like geniuses, or teams of scientific experts, but by you and I learning how to plug ourselves directly into the Source from which we come.
In short, I believe this subject deserves our utmost attention and hope you will take the time to read this report, purchase the book it summarizes, and share it all with family and friends!
With Love & Best Wishes,
David Sunfellow
P.S. Along with expressing my enthusiasm for this subject, let me also add a note of caution.
While the growing phenomenon of near-death experiences provides us with many things to be hopeful about, there are also some very important questions that remain to be answered. What's up with the 1 to 15 percent of NDEs that are hellish and/or distressing? How can some people, who reportedly have genuine NDEs, remain trapped in wounded, conflict-ridden, ego-driven lives and personalities? And how is it that some of the most well-known authorities in the near-death world end up attacking one another (and the movement itself) with unapologetic abandon -- apparently with little or no regard for a life review that will replay their words and deeds from the perspective of those who were hurt by them?
(To take a peek into the dark side of the near-death movement, you can read Raymond Moody's book, "The Last Laugh" -- a strange, convoluted, annoying book that explores the "show business" side of the near-death movement, as well as some of its most controversial celebrities.)
That's a short way of saying that while I think it is very important for us to deeply ponder the power and possibilities of NDEs, I also want to be sure we keep a sharp lookout for the unseen, the disowned, the ignored, the embellished, the unexpected, the deep rumblings that remind us there is far more to us -- and God, life, existence -- than can be wrapped up in overly simplistic packages. Whatever the ultimate truth turns out to be about near-death experiences, I think we can expect big surprises as we journey further and further into this vast, largely uncharted frontier.
............
RELATED LINKS:
NHNE's Near-Death Resource Center & Social Network
Evidence Of The Afterlife: The Science Of Near-Death Experiences
By Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry
Near Death Experience Research Foundation
Lessons From The Light: What We Can Learn From The Near-Death Experience
By Kenneth Ring and Evelyn Elsaesser Valarino
Life After Life
By Raymond Moody
Return From Tomorrow
By Dr. George Ritchie
Ordered To Return: My Life After Dying
By Dr. George Ritchie and Ian Stevenson
............
EVIDENCE OF THE AFTERLIFE: THE SCIENCE OF NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES
By Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry
QUOTES FROM EVIDENCE OF THE AFTERLIFE
"The core NDE experience is the same all over the world. Whether it's a near-death experience of a Hindu in India, a Muslim in Egypt, or a Christian in the United States, the same core elements are present in all, including out-of-body experience, tunnel experience, feelings of peace, beings of light, a life review, reluctance to return, and transformation after the NDE. In short, the experience of dying appears similar among all humans, no matter where they live."
"Preexisting cultural beliefs do not significantly influence the content of NDEs. Near-death experiences from around the world appear to have similar content regardless of the culture of the country that the NDErs live in."
"The results of the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) study clearly indicate remarkable consistency among NDE case studies. This study finds that what people discovered during their near-death experience about God, love, afterlife, reason for our earthly existence, earthly hardships, forgiveness, and many other concepts is strikingly consistent across cultures, races, and creeds. Also, these discoveries are generally not what would have been expected from preexisting societal beliefs, religious teachings, or any other source of earthly knowledge."
"By scientifically studying the more than 1,300 cases shared with NDERF, I believe that the nine lines of evidence presented in this book all converge on one central point: There is life after death."
"I have studied thousands of near-death experiences. I have carefully considered the evidence NDEs present regarding the existence of an afterlife. I believe, without a shadow of a doubt that there is life after physical death."
"Some research indicates that as much as 5 percent of the U.S. Population has had a near-death experience."
"Generaly speaking, NDErs who have life reviews view themselves from a third-person perspective. They watch themselves interacting with the people in their lives. They see how they treated others and often step into the other person's place so they know how that person felt when interacting with them."
"A spiritual being sometimes accompanies the person who is having the life review. This being may serve as a kind of loving guide, assessing the life review from a higher spiritual plane as the NDEr watches, discussing the spiritual ramifications of the events of the NDEr's life. The being's comments may help the NDEr put his or her life into perspective. Near-death experiencers almost never describe feeling negatively judged by this spiritual being, no matter how unkind they were up to that point in their lives. Near-death experiencers who reviewed many of their own prior cruel actions often express great relief that they were not negatively judged during their NDEs."
"Near-death experiencers generally noted that they were the ones who judged themselves. During the process they saw the good and bad, the cause and effect of their choices. Many reported that they had a review of feelings rather than a review of visual events."
"Many NDErs say that the life review, of all the elements of the NDE, was by far the greatest catalyst for change. A life review allows NDErs to relive their own lives, mistakes and all. It also gives them a chance to evaluate themselves on their life performance. Many things that seemed insignificant at the time -- a small kindness, for instance -- turn out to be significant in their own or another person's life. People realize they became angry over things that were not important or that they placed too much significance on unimportant things."
"The life review helps the NDEr understand his or her purpose in life."
"Knowledge and love are two elements that we take with us when we die. As a result, life reviews are often one of the most transformative elements of the NDE. Those who have powerful life reviews tend to revere both knowledge and love after their NDE."
"The Kelly study found that 95 percent of the deceased individuals encountered were relatives, while only 5 percent were friends or acquaintances. Only 4 percent of the NDErs in the study met beings who were alive at the time of the NDE. Other studies have shown that in dreams or hallucinations, the beings encountered are much more likely to be people who are still living."
"Encounters with the deceased loved ones are almost always joyous reunions."
"Although many deceased loved ones prior to death were elderly and sometimes disfigured by arthritis or other chronic illnesses, the deceased in the near-death experience are virtually always the picture of perfect health and may appear younger -- even decades younger -- than they did at the time of death. Those who died as very young children may appear older. But even if the deceased appear to be a very different age than when they died, the NDEr still recognizes them."
"People may encounter in their near-death experience a being who seems familiar but whose identity is unknown during the NDE... Most of the time... unfamiliar beings turn out to be family members from the past."
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THE TWELVE ELEMENTS OF NDEs:
According to Evidence of the Afterlife, no two near-death experiences are identical. When, however, many near-death experiences are studied, a common pattern of elements emerges, which usually occur in consistent order. Here is a list of the twelve main NDE elements that have been identified. Each element is followed by a number indicating what percentage of the 613 people included in the Evidence of the Afterlife study experienced the element in question. Significantly, only 33.8 percent reported passing into of through a tunnel, and only 22.2 percent said they experienced a life review.
1. Out-of-body experience (OBE): Separation of consciousness from the physical body - 75.4 percent
2. Heightened senses - 74.4 percent
3. Intense and generally positive emotions or feelings - 76.2 percent
4. Passing into or through a tunnel - 33.8 percent
5. Encountering a mystical or brilliant light - 64.6 percent
6. Encountering other beings, either mystical beings or deceased relatives or friends - 57.3 percent
7. A sense of alteration of time and space - 60.5 percent
8. Life review - 22.2 percent
9. Encountering unworldly ("heavenly") realms - 40.6 percent
10. Encountering or learning special knowledge - 56 percent (31.5 percent answered that they felt they understood everything "about the universe"; 31.3 percent felt they understood everything "about myself and others")
11. Encountering a boundary or barrier - 31 percent
12. Return to the body, either voluntary or involuntary - 58.5 percent
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Based on the NDEs that Long studied, Long developed "nine lines of reasoning" that he believes PROVES the existence of life after death. Here are Long's nine lines, with an additional category added by me:
LONG'S NINE LINES OF EVIDENCE
1. The level of consciousness and alertness during NDEs is usually greater than they experience during their everyday life even though NDEs generally occur while unconscious or clinically dead. The elements in NDEs generally follow a consistent and logical and order.
2. What NDErs see and hear in the out of body state during their NDEs is generally realistic, and often verified later by the NDErs or others as real.
3. Normal or super-normal vision occurs in NDEs among those with significantly impaired vision or even legal blindness. Several NDErs who were blind from birth have reported highly visual NDEs.
4. Typical NDEs occur under general anesthesia at a time when conscious experience should be impossible.
5. Life reviews in NDEs include real events that took place in the NDErs lives, even if the events had been forgotten.
6. When NDErs encounter beings they knew from their earthly life, they are virtually always deceased, and usually deceased relatives.
7. The NDEs of children, including very young children, are strikingly similar to the NDEs of older children and adults.
8. NDEs appear strikingly consistent around the world. Many NDEs from non-Western countries are very similar to typical Western NDEs.
9. Changes in the lives of NDErs after their experiences, the NDE aftereffects, are common. Aftereffects are often powerful, lasting, and the changes follow a consistent pattern.
Aftereffects include:
- Decreased fear of death
- Increased belief in the afterlife
- A stronger sense of spirituality
- A sense of God's presence
- An awareness of the meaning and purpose of life
- A belief in the sacredness of life
- A greater appreciation of life
- A reduced interest in material gain or status
- Seek out helping or healing professions
- 45 percent reported psychic, paranormal, or other special gifts
- People with very serious illnesses, both physical and mental, believe they were healed
- Increasingly loving and accepting of themselves
- More self confidence
- Increased awareness of the needs of others and a willingness to reach out to them
- May end negative and unloving relationships, and seek out positive and loving relationships
- Increasing capacities for love and compassion can result in stronger marriages and relationships
- Increased intelligence (at least in children)
According to Long, "you can't fake the effects of a near-death experience."
73.1 percent reported that their lives had changed significantly as the result of their NDE. Long also reports that "it takes as long as seven years or more for a person who has had a near-death experience to fully integrate into their life the changes that resulted from the experience."
A line of evidence that I believe should have been included, but wasn't:
10. Remarkably accurate, long-term memories of NDEs
Not included in the above nine lines of evidence mentioned above, is another peculiar feature of the near-death experience that I believe should have been included. And that is the curious fact that unlike normal human memories, which are distorted over time, near-death experiences are not "embellished or diminished." This includes both children, who retell their near-death experiences as adults, as well as adults who retell their stories decades after the experience. Long cites several different studies, of both children and adults, that support this important conclusion. Writes Long, "the striking ability of near-death experiences to consistently recall in great detail their experiences, even decades later, is a testament to the power of the near-death experience. It is a unique and remarkable state of consciousness."
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TWO ESPECIALLY INTERESTING NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES
JONATHAN R'S NDE
Original Link
Going into the operating room I had an unusual amount of peace. I was joking with the staff and doctors. I had no fear at all. I remember counting backwards from 10, but don't remember what number I got to. It was several days later that I began to remember what happened during the operation. And only a few days ago I first shared it with my wife in fear of being considered a nut.
I remember standing about 10 feet up and 10 feet to the side of my body on the table. A person was standing next to me, but I didn't look at him/her. I had no fear, or questions to ask, I just observed.
Around the table were at least a dozen nurses and doctors. But what was so emotional was the presence of white people that I can only describe as angels. Each angel was guiding the hands of the staff they were standing next to.
I heard no noise, no voices, no music. It was peacefully quiet.
I don't remember details to specific, such as what tools were used, or the exact position of my body, but only because I was focused so much on the angels guiding the staff in everything they did, from walking, to the use of the tools within my chest cavity.
Even after the operation, I still had an unusual peace and no fear. The doctor said it was the best operation he had ever gone through, there were no problems at all, and he was impressed at my rate of recovery.
I was released from the hospital only 14 days after having my chest opened, deflated lungs, and patched esophagus.
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ANITA M'S NDE
Original Link
I had cancer (Hodgkin's Lymphoma), and on this morning, I could not move. My husband rushed me to hospital, where, after doing scans, they diagnosed me with grade 4B lymphoma (the highest grade). The senior oncologist looked at my report and told my husband that it was too late, and that my organs were now shutting down. I only had 36 hours to live. However, the oncologist said he would do whatever he could but prepared my husband that I would most likely not make it, as my organs were no longer functioning. They started me on a chemotherapy drip as well as oxygen, and then they started to take tests, particularly on my organ functions, so that they could determine what drugs to use.
I was drifting in and out of consciousness during this time, and I could feel my spirit actually leaving my body. I saw and heard the conversations between my husband and the doctors taking place outside my room, about 40 feet away down a hallway. I was later able to verify this conversation to my shocked husband. Then I actually "crossed over" to another dimension, where I was engulfed in a total feeling of love. I also experienced extreme clarity of why I had the cancer, why I had come into this life in the first place, what role everyone in my family played in my life in the grand scheme of things, and generally how life works. The clarity and understanding I obtained in this state is almost indescribable. Words seem to limit the experience -- I was at a place where I understood how much more there is than what we are able to conceive in our 3-dimensional world. I realized what a gift life was, and that I was surrounded by loving spiritual beings, who were always around me even when I did not know it.
The amount of love I felt was overwhelming, and from this perspective, I knew how powerful I am, and saw the amazing possibilities we as humans are capable of achieving during a physical life. I found out that my purpose now would be to live "heaven on earth" using this new understanding, and also to share this knowledge with other people. However I had the choice of whether to come back into life, or go towards death. I was made to understand that it was not my time, but I always had the choice, and if I chose death, I would not be experiencing a lot of the gifts that the rest of my life still held in store. One of the things I wanted to know was that if I chose life, would I have to come back to this sick body, because my body was very, very sick and the organs had stopped functioning. I was then made to understand that if I chose life, my body would heal very quickly. I would see a difference in not months or weeks, but days!
I was shown how illnesses start on an energetic level before they become physical. If I chose to go into life, the cancer would be gone from my energy, and my physical body would catch up very quickly. I then understood that when people have medical treatments for illnesses, it rids the illness only from their body but not from their energy so the illness returns. I realized if I went back, it would be with a very healthy energy. Then the physical body would catch up to the energetic conditions very quickly and permanently. I was given the understanding that this applies to anything, not only illnesses -- physical conditions, psychological conditions, etc. I was "shown" that everything going on in our lives was dependant on this energy around us, created by us. Nothing was solid -- we created our surroundings, our conditions, etc. depending where this "energy" was at. The clarity I received around how we get what we do was phenomenal! It's all about where we are energetically. I was made to feel that I was going to see "proof" of this first hand if I returned back to my body.
I know I was drifting in and out between the two worlds, but every time I drifted into the "other side", I was shown more and more scenes. There was one which showed how my life had touched all the people in it -- it was sort of like a tapestry and showed how I affected everyone's lives around me. There was another which showed my brother on a plane, having heard the news I was dying, coming to see me (this was verified to me as when I started to come round, my brother was there, having just got off a plane). I then saw a glimpse of my brother and me and somehow seemed to understand it was a previous life, where I was much older than him and was like a mother to him (in this life, he is older than me). I saw in that life I was very protective towards him. I suddenly became aware he was on the plane to come and see me, and felt "I can't do this to him -- can't let him come and see me dead". Then I also saw how my husband's purpose was linked to mine, and how we had decided to come and experience this life together. If I went, he would probably follow soon after.
I was made to understand that, as tests had been taken for my organ functions (and the results were not out yet), that if I chose life, the results would show that my organs were functioning normally. If I chose death, the results would show organ failure as the cause of death, due to cancer. I was able to change the outcome of the tests by my choice!
I made my choice, and as I started to wake up (in a very confused state, as I could not at that time tell which side of the veil I was on), the doctors came rushing into the room with big smiles on their faces saying to my family "Good news -- we got the results and her organs are functioning -- we can't believe it!! Her body really did seem like it had shut down!"
After that, I began to recover rapidly. The doctors had been waiting for me to become stable before doing a lymph node biopsy to track the type of cancer cells, and they could not even find a lymph node big enough to suggest cancer (upon entering the hospital my body was filled with swollen lymph nodes). They did a bone marrow biopsy, again to find the cancer activity so they could adjust the chemotherapy according to the disease, and there wasn't any in the bone marrow. The doctors were very confused, but put it down to me suddenly responding to the chemo. Because they themselves were unable to understand what was going on, they made me undergo test after test, all of which I passed with flying colors, and clearing every test empowered me even more! I had a full body scan, and because they could not find anything, they made the radiologist repeat it again!!!!
Because of my experience, I am now sharing with everyone I know that miracles are possible in your life every day. After what I have seen, I realize that absolutely anything is possible, and that we did not come here to suffer. Life is supposed to be great, and we are very, very loved. The way I look at life has changed dramatically, and I am so glad to have been given a second chance to experience "heaven on earth".
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The Near Death Experience Research Foundation presently contains over 2000 full-text published NDE accounts, with more being added. Current NDEs are located here.
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If you would like to explore NDEs further with fans and friends of NHNE, come join NHNE's Near-Death Resource Center & Social Network:
http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/
Views: 290
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Tymn on -
David,
Excellent review. I am a "vicarious experiencer" and agree with everything you have said. However, as I stated in my Amazon review of Dr. Long's book, I really think we have reached the point of diminishing returns in NDE research and I wonder if anything more is to be learned. Unless someone actually views one of the hidden numbers in an operating room, I doubt that there will be anything more evidential than the "Pam Reynolds" case. The pseudoskeptics will still find fault with it, just as they did with the "shoe on a ledge" case.
But I am being pessimistic here. There is clearly a need to educate the public with as much information as possible about the NDE. There are so many people out there who are ignorant of what NDEs are all about and still say there is no evidence for the survival of consciousness. For example, see what journalist John Geddes says at
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/03/09/on-lionel-tiger-and-the-afterlife/ (He says there has been no evidence since the Bible, or something to that effect.)
Keep up the good work.
Mike Tymn
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Permalink Reply by Robert Perry on -
David, I really enjoyed this summary. Very well done. I have read the book, and it was still a good refresher for me. I hope it will be widely read.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Dillard on -
Dear David,
I first learned about NDE’s from the same place you did - from Ritchie at an ARE presentation! I wonder if we could possibly have been at the same one? I really couldn’t begin to pinpoint when mine was, other than to guess is was after 1968 and before 1972...Well, I guess that would be well before when you heard it.
I agree with your assessment of the importance of paying attention to the research on NDEs and groking the personal accounts. They awaken people powerfully, just to hear about them.
I would say, “It is also the largest study concerning NDEs of young children ever published.”
I want to take a shot at answering your very good questions:
“What’s up with the 1 to 15 percent of NDEs that are hellish and/or distressing?”
Wilber’s four quadrant, holonic model of humans makes clear that all experience is interpreted, meaning it is filtered through our world view, scripting, and cultural assumptions. If this was true for an astounding medical clairvoyant like Edgar Cayce, how much more true is it for the average NDEer, both during and after the experience?
That goes a long way toward explaining why a temporary NDE state experience does not translate into an ongoing higher stage of development for some people. People tend to fall back into what you mention in your second question: their wounded, conflict-ridden, ego-driven lives and personalities. This is why lasting transformation requires an ongoing integral life practice or psychospiritual discipline, otherwise known as a yoga.
“How is it that some of the most well-known authorities in the near-death world end up attacking one another...?”
People want experiences of bliss and transformation, but what they need is stable growth and development. NDE experiences are so far and beyond most people’s everyday level of development that they cannot integrate them. So there remains a phenomenal disjunction between the love in those experiences and the pettiness of their everyday behavior.
Correction: “(To take a PEEK...”) not, “(To take a peak...”)
"The results of the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) study clearly indicate remarkable consistency among NDE case studies. This study finds that what people discovered during their near-death experience about God, love, afterlife, reason for our earthly existence, earthly hardships, forgiveness, and many other concepts is strikingly consistent across cultures, races, and creeds. Also, these discoveries are generally not what would have been expected from preexisting societal beliefs, religious teachings, or any other source of earthly knowledge."
I would be interested in hearing what Buddhists experience about God, since it is an atheistic path. Do they become deists or theists? Do they reframe the experience in a Buddhist world view? What?
The presence of a spiritual guide reminds me of the “ghosts” in Dicken’s A Christmas Carol, and helps to explain its lasting appeal.
The frequency of deceased family members in NDE accounts reminds me of the powerful and pervasive aspect of traditional Chinese culture that venerates one’s ancestors with offerings. Prayers are made to them to intercede to help in this or that way. While Chinese culture does squirrely things with this, perhaps the core of truth involves NDE experiences.
All of the twelve experiences noted by Long can be interpreted as aspects of a subtle level life dream. I use the world “dream,” not to mean a night time dream, but to point out that experience is conditioned by perception and therefore always to some extent illusory and subjective, dead or alive, awake or asleep. I say “subtle,” level, because NDEs bear the signs of classically described subtle level mystical experiences.
I believe that a key to holding on to these experiences involves reading about more of them, yet this is not enough, obviously, because of the disputes among NDE researchers who have read a ton of reports. Ongoing remembrances need to be combined with ongoing experiences of parts of self that have not forgotten. One can do this with meditation, prayer, and other means, like my work, Integral Deep Listening, which is a form of dream yoga.
Regarding where we are energetically determining where our body is physically, my best guess is that the remembrance of this experience helped this lady (whose account you included) to maintain her energy at a harmonious level so her body would not fall back into the inertia of the disease, as often happens with faith healings and other spontaneous remissions. The key is accessing and maintaining a new level of “energy” in the face of a life of inertia and habit.
Regarding changing the past (changing the results of medical tests that had already been made), it speaks to me of a conjoining of clarity of intention, an alignment of that intention with a core higher good, and the oneness of all energy. It seems to me that all three of these factors, and perhaps more, need to be working for such earth plane magic to occur. Having said that, I believe it is possible, but that it is rare. I don’t see a lot of difference in theory, only in degree, between what she experienced and what apparently happened to Jesus based on the evidence of the Shroud of Turin.
Also, when we talk about healing in terms of energy we are almost certainly talking about lower transpersonal or “psychic” level consciousness, which generally emphasizes purification. The thumbnail version is:
psychic level: oneness with all things as energy;
subtle level: oneness with the divine as love;
causal level: oneness with consciousness itself (transcending all forms)
non-dual: integration and inclusion of all levels
Questions for you:
What does this research say to you about culturally determined NDEs, such as Ritchie’s, and, more specifically, about Jesus?
If you judge yourself during an NDE, does that imply that there is no objective standard of good or bad, right and wrong?
Some dreams are more literal, objective, and concrete than others. Does that mean that they are still a dream or that some dream experiences are more real than waking life generally is?
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Dillard on
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David, One other comment. As I have written to you before, people draw inferences from NDE experiences about what the nature of existence is like AFTER NDEs. They often end up with the idea that it is pretty much like Earth: you are surrounded by loved ones, you keep learning, growing, and developing. Many such assumptions are supported by channelings by mediums. For myself, I think it is more likely that most of us go into a state of deep sleep after whatever portion of an NDE that we have when we actually die. That's because it is unlikely that we can sustain the level of clarity, love, and awareness that suddenly enfolds us. That's the Tibetan idea, and I am inclined to think it is the more realistic. But meditation and practice at staying awake while alive probably changes that... Joseph
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Permalink Reply by David Sunfellow on -
Hi Mike.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this post.
Concerning the idea that near-death research may have reached a saturation point, my view is that it is more like a foundation has been laid and we're on the verge of seeing the house go up. Here are some of the extremely fertile areas that I believe will be hitting the fan in the near future:
1. More, deeper, better studies emerging that explore, illuminate, and fine-tune the true nature of NDEs -- and bring up new questions to explore and answer;
2. More and more people will be exposed to NDEs -- personally (by being resurrected via increasingly adept medical breakthroughs), by having more and more NDErs share their stories with family and friends, and by the mass media beginning to sense something is happening here and start devoting more time to covering the topic;
3. Social networks like this beginning to making it increasing possible for people who have had near-death experiences to gather together with those who haven't, comparing notes, anchoring the experience, and finding creative ways to share (and embody) the core knowing of the experience in their own lives and the lives of others.
4. I believe there is going to be a major movement arise around the idea that Jesus, and his message of love and focus on the Kingdom of God was directly tied into the universal truths that are reported around near-death experiences. This will have the effect of encouraging people to pay more attention to central, universal role that Jesus has played in human development, while, at the same time, encouraging humankind to fine-tune the relevance of other spiritual movers and shakers, as well as their particular ideas concerning the purpose of life. I think the near-death experience also has the potential to breathe new life into Christianity, and give Christians the clarity they need to begin to seriously embody the core tenants of their faith (which have been grievously misunderstood and misapplied for ages). And if Christianity can catch fire, in a good way, we could see some real fireworks. The near-death movement would then have a powerful ally to help spread the word, and embody it -- which, in turn, would cause more and more people to sit up and take notice while, at the same time, paving the way for more and more of the miraculous kind of events that are associated with both Jesus and NDEs to emerge.
5. As all these things begin to happen, I think the world at large is going to be significantly changed, leading to new, as yet unseen, heights of development.
In summary, I think we haven't seen nothing yet. The NDR plane is just beginning to taxi down the runway...
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Permalink Reply by David Sunfellow on
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Thanks, Robert!
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Permalink Reply by David Sunfellow on
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Hi Joseph.
Concerning George Ritchie, no, I saw him at a later time than you did. I arrived at the Beach in 1974-75 (somewhere in that time frame).
Concerning hellish realms and personal development, of course I agree with you that something like this is probably happening. That said, I do think there are components of the near-death experience that are in another ballpark that other spiritual experiences. The main difference, of course, is that most spiritual experiences are dramatically translated through whatever developmental filters a person has. And there are definitely some aspects of the near-death experience that look like this dynamic is at work. On the other hand, the fact that you can have people from all over the world, young and old, with differing belief systems and cultural conditioning, and who are at different levels of development, experiencing and reporting many of the same core experiences -- that indicates something else at work to me. The obvious conclusion is that all these people are actually visiting the same place in consciousness. Kind of like visiting Earth. Yes, you are going to see Earth through whatever developmental filters you have, but at the same time you are also going to see and experience a lot of the same things other people do who visit this planet. So, personally, I think the near-death experience is in an entirely different league than normal spiritual experiences -- and need to be viewed accordingly.
Concerning people who have had NDEs, but still end up misbehaving and demonstrating normal human failings, yes, absolutely, I think this is a developmental issue. They, like the rest of us, have got stuff that needs to be cleaned up before they can sustain the deeper aspects of their NDE.
Concerning atheistic Buddhists, I'm less interested in hearing about what their experience of God is like (there are massive amounts of information about this). What I would be really interested in is tracking down a bunch of Buddhists who have had near-death experiences and see what they report.
After discovering that the Tibetan Book of the Dead was written by an 8th century Buddhist, and later adopted and embellished by other Buddhist monks, my faith in Buddhist traditions offering an authoritative view of the afterlife plummeted. It's not that I don't think there is any value to the Bardo realms, and the elaborate challenges and tests associated with them. It's just that these seem much less credible, and far more likely to be a hodge podge of guesses and untrustworthy visionary experiences, than the incredibly cohesive reports we are getting from thousands of people all over the world, from all kinds of religious traditions.
Now that I think of it, this would be a great research project. Finding hard core Buddhists who have had NDEs and seeing what they report.
You write:
"All of the twelve experiences noted by Long can be interpreted as aspects of a subtle level life dream. I use the world “dream,” not to mean a night time dream, but to point out that experience is conditioned by perception and therefore always to some extent illusory and subjective, dead or alive, awake or asleep. I say “subtle,” level, because NDEs bear the signs of classically described subtle level mystical experiences."
The spiritual classics that I am aware of, such as Yogananda's Autobiography of a Guru, indicate that there are three distinct levels of existence: the physical, astral, casual, each requiring distinct bodies to function in, and each with their own laws and purposes. According to this worldview, when we die we enter the astral realms, which are more real, wonderful, and directly connected to the Divine than the physical. We rest here, until we are ready to incarnate again in the Earth -- and we continue reincarnating in the Earth until we have achieved whatever level of perfection is required of us before we can leave it, and take up residence in the Astral realm. Then the process continues with us shedding astral bodies and finding ourselves in the yet higher, more beautiful, and Divinely infused casual realms.
Personally, I'm not sure what to make of all of this. I think something like this is happening, but significantly, it does not include the idea that life is evolving, growing, deepening. Instead, it simply reflects the classic Eastern view that creation is cyclical -- souls emerge on the lower levels, slowly perfect themselves, and then merge back into the Ground of Being. And then the next waves comes. Nothing new is created. The same old, same old happens forever, in grand cosmic cycles of birth and death. I don't buy this. I think something else is happening. I think new things are emerging. I think God, Himself/Herself/Itself is becoming more that it was in the beginning by becoming individualized. And I don't think this is cyclical in the classical sense of the word.
I also think my brain is too small to grasp what's really going on -- unless, of course, I have one of those NDEs where I know suddenly know everything.
But I digress.
The main point I wanted to make is that while all the experiences we have in the creation are, in one sense, illusory, some are more real than others, and, I think, need to be treated this way. In other words, night time dreams do not possess the same level of cohesiveness, that the Earth does. If the reports we are hearing from people who have experienced NDEs are true, the realms we enter into after death are, in turn, more real than the Earth. So while these realms may be filtered through our particular development, that does not change their existence. They exist a part from us and, in fact, bend, train, force us to conform to whatever purposes they exist to teach us.
What I'm basically saying here is that in addition to our perception contributing to what we see and experience, what we see and experience also changes us. And some of the things we see and experience (like the three great realms) are, I think, designed to force us to bend to their will and intention for us.
You ask:
"What does this research say to you about culturally determined NDEs, such as Ritchie’s, and, more specifically, about Jesus?"
On the one hand, it seems clear that one of the flexible aspects of NDEs is that people cook up religious figures that are personally meaningful to them. On the other hand, I think Jesus might represent some kind of universal, archetypal energy. Bottom line: I think this area needs a lot more exploration.
You ask:
"If you judge yourself during an NDE, does that imply that there is no objective standard of good or bad, right and wrong?"
Just the opposite. The fact that everyone is built to judge themselves in the same way -- that everyone feels good when they see themselves acting in loving ways, and feels bad when they see themselves acting in unloving ways, clearly indicates there are universal laws that we are all measured by, and measure ourselves by. I think this is a really important fact. Simply put: God, the universe, life has it's own rules and we are compelled, like it or not, to play by them.
You ask:
"Some dreams are more literal, objective, and concrete than others. Does that mean that they are still a dream or that some dream experiences are more real than waking life generally is?"
I think some dreams can be more real than waking life. And to your larger point, yes, I also believe some dreams, level, realms, experiences are more real, valid, and important than others.
Over and out.
David
P.S. I'll have a package in the mail for you tomorrow...
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Dillard on
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Dear David,
Yes, a study of NDEs reported by say, Buddhist monks, would be interesting. While I would suspect that they would report the cross-cultural similarities researched by Long, I would expect there to be fewer reassuring entities and more meditative clarity. This is because when we no longer need, on a deep emotional level, reassurance or rescuing, we are less likely to be presented by images of reassurance or salvation by saviors. We tend to find what we’re looking for and see what we want to see. But that is only a hypothesis, and Buddhist monks might report the exact opposite. I don’t know.
Regarding the Tibetan model of bardos: I don’t know, because I don’t have any first-hand experience of them - at least that I can remember! However, everything that we know had to be generated by something at some time, so whether an idea is generated by the Buddha or by an 8th century Buddhist teacher is of little concern to me, since I do not judge the credibility of an idea by my respect for its source, but by the content of the idea and what implications it has for my worldview and how I live my life. After all, we have nothing that was actually written by Buddha. It was all orally transmitted for six hundred years, and we know how accurate oral traditions are. How long after Jesus’ death were the first texts written? How accurate are the sayings that we have that are attributed to him? We don’t know, but we have to deal with what we have, in either case. Again, I do not judge the credibility of an idea based on my respect for its source, because I really don’t know with certainty the source of pretty much any idea. Therefore I can only judge an idea by its content and by how useful it is to me. We appear to differ on this, based on your response to the quote I sent you by psycho guru, Osho.
The main point I was trying to make about the Tibetan after death mythology is not the source of the idea of bardos, but the question, “What comes next after the NDE experience?” We can research NDE experiences all we want and they will tell us about NDE experiences. Anything that we assume or believe about the nature of life after death after NDE experiences, based on NDE narratives, are inferences. Do we stay in a state of heavenly bliss? That’s one inference. Do we stay surrounded by loved ones? That’s one inference. Do we stay “awake?” That’s another inference. Is the after death state more real than waking? That’s another inference. Do we go to school? That’s another inference.
The reason why this is an important question is that most people interested in NDEs seem to want to use them to make inferences about what the nature of life after death is. I think they mostly use them to justify their own biases, their own world view, and to stay stuck at their own level of development. I’m not saying I don’t do the same thing. It’s part of the human predicament.
The Tibetan model isn’t primarily about NDEs. It’s primarily about what happens AFTER NDEs. It does not claim to be based on NDEs. I am not saying it is an accurate model. I am saying that it is talking about something different than NDEs and that to compare them to NDEs is to compare apples and oranges.
Thanks for sharing your conception of what happens after we die and after the “NDE” fades. I agree with your story in general. Where I would differ would be that it seems reasonable to me that only people who are much better meditators than I am maintain wakefulness after the NDE fades. They are most likely to lose consciousness. When they do wake up again they are most likely to awaken into a dream like reality in which whatever external “astral” reality exists is framed in terms of their own memory banks. They can only see and experience what they can relate to. When and how and what reincarnates I do not understand, but there is definitely something important that gets regenerated.
I also think that to generalize the Eastern view as cyclical in the sense that it is not evolutionary is about as accurate as to generalize the Western view as linear in the sense that nothing repeats. Yes, in the West we have people in every generation who say these are the “end times,” and who are sure that development is purely linear. And yes, in the East we have people in every generation who believe that there is nothing new under the sun. However, if you look at the history of Eastern thought, whether Hindu, Buddhist, or Chinese, you will find that it is developmental, evolutionary, and full of new ideas that transcend and include previous traditions.
Which is more real, dreams or waking? Which is more real, after death experience or Earth experience? Spirit apparently generated evolutionary forms because it deals there with forms of reality that it does not experience in less dense manifestations. This is what I assume. Do you agree with this or do you see it differently?
When we are dreaming, dreams are real. It is only when we go lucid or wake up that we say, “I was dreaming!” So this does seem to be the human predicament. Is there any time, any state, whether alive or dead, when we cannot or do not wake up and say, “I was dreaming!” I doubt that we are any more alive after we are dead than when we were alive. If I was a drunk while I was alive, perhaps I am now a dead drunk, searching for my next drink. As you know, this is the inception of many theories about ghosts. The idea of ghosts involves non-physical beings who are locked in their own self-created dream after they die, one that they import from physical experience. Why is it less likely that you or I will not do the same? But perhaps you agree with that approach. Do you? Or do you see things differently?
If the realms we enter after we die are more real than those of Earth, how long does that experience of greater reality last? Do you think these places are by nature “more real,” or do you think that this is because we haven’t yet adapted to them? To provide a somewhat jaundiced example, whenever I travel to a new place, it seems “more real,” because it is full of new experiences for me. But then, once I have lived there or travel there regularly, there is a tendency for me to slip back into being me living wherever I am living. Like a turtle, I take the house of consciousness that I have built wherever I go. Yes, grasslands bend a turtle to walk, not swim, and water bends a turtle to swim, not walk. But which is more real? All we can say for sure is that they provide different adaptational challenges that make our turtle friend a more versatile turtle.
I agree with you that Jesus represents some kind of universal, archetypal energy. I have no doubt about that. It’s an energy that we all need and that is a sacred energy, an embodiment of the sacred. Where I get radical is when people start making exclusive claims for that energy. When they do that they are putting limits on spirit, and that is a very non-spiritual thing to do.
I like your answer about self-judgment being a reflection of a universal structure or order to which we are learning to conform. For me, self-judgment is a contorted, warped reflection of that order, which lies in the direction of altruism, empathy, compassion, witnessing, acceptance, and wisdom, but out past them.
Thanks for your comments and your dialogue, David! I hope other folks are following this and will chime in with their comments!
love,
Joseph
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Permalink Reply by David Sunfellow on
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Hi Joseph!
You write:
"when we no longer need, on a deep emotional level, reassurance or rescuing, we are less likely to be presented by images of reassurance or salvation by saviors"
I think this is less about salvation images, and more about feeling that God, in some form, is personally aware of us. God, in other words, according to NDEs, is an active, loving, PERSONAL presence in our lives, not simply a an impersonal presence that enfolds us in impersonal bliss. Here's a related quote from Ken Wilber:
"In today's 'new paradigm' spiritual movements, we usually see... a complete loss of the Spirit in 2nd-person. What we find instead are extensive descriptions of Spirit in its 3rd-person mode, such as Gaia, the Web of Life, systems theory, akashic fields, chaos theory, and so on. This is coupled, to the extent there is a practice, with Spirit in 1st-person modes: meditation, contemplation, Big Mind, Big Self, Big Me. But no conceptions of a Great Thou, to whom surrender and devotion is the only response.
"This amounts to nothing less that the repression of Spirit in 2nd-person. Remember, all three 3 faces of Spirit are simply faces of your deepest, formless Self... In short, failing to acknowledge your own Spirit in 2nd-person is a repression of a dimension of your very being-in-the-world.
"In today's America, the repression of the Great Thou often goes hand in hand with boomeritis. By emphasizing either a 3rd-person conception of Spirit as a great Web of Life, or a 1st-person conception of Spirit as Big Mind or Big Self, there is nothing before which 'I' must bow and surrender. The ego can actually hide out in 1st- and 3rd-person approaches...
"Spirit in 2nd-person is the great devotional leveler, the great ego killer, that before which the ego is humbled into Emptiness. Vipassana, Zen, shikan-taza, Vedanta, TM, and so on, simply do not confront my interior with something greater than me, only higher levels of me. But without higher levels of Thou as well -- the quadrants go all the way up! -- then one remains subtly or not so subtly fixated to variations on I-ness and 1st-person. That is why the merely 1st-person approaches often retain a deep-seated arrogance.
"It is understandable why so many individuals abandoned the mythic-amber God, usually when they reached college and switched to orange and green worldviews. Abandon the mythic God they should -- but not abandon Spirit in 2nd-person! Find, instead, the turquoise God, the indigo God, all the way up to the ultraviolet God, which is the Great Thou that is the 2nd-person face of Spirit alongside the ultraviolet I-I and the Great It of Dharmadhatu (or realm of Reality). These are the 3 dimensions of your own formless primordial Spirit as it manifest in the world of Form, and repressing any of them is repressing your own deepest realities."
That's what I'm concerned about. I think a lot of meditative traditions, including atheistic Buddhism, overlooks this -- and NDEs remind us that in spite of whatever meditative states we may have achieved, if they don't have a relationship with a personal God that loves us, guides us, challenges our egos, reveals shadow material, encourages us to be in relationship with others, and insists that we become more loving, fully engaged people, a critical part of ourselves and overall development is missing.
You write:
"I do not judge the credibility of an idea based on my respect for its source, because I really don’t know with certainty the source of pretty much any idea. Therefore I can only judge an idea by its content and by how useful it is to me. We appear to differ on this, based on your response to the quote I sent you by psycho guru, Osho."
Yes, it does sound like we see this differently. I think all sources of information are intimately connected to their proponents -- and real world application. Meaning, the only way you can really determine if an idea is solid or not is through application. Thus, if someone comes along spouting off spiritual truths that sound beautiful but are, in fact, full of holes, these holes will become evident when you attempt to put them into practice -- and, of course, they will also become evident in the life of the person that espouses them. Thus, I spend as much time looking at how healthy a person is as I do listening to the ideas and practices they promote. If their lives are vibrant and healthy, full of goodness and love, true reflections of God on Earth, I listen more carefully; if their lives are full of shadow material, projection, escapism, and selfish, hurtful interactions with their fellow beings, I pay attention to that too. Again, this is not to say that sick people can't think and promote healthy ideas. Just that even if they can think healthy ideas, the thinking part is only the first step in the process. In other words, the devil, as they say, is in the details -- or application. That's what I'm interested in. Lots of philosophies look good when they are floating on white pedestals. I want to see what happens when they are brought down into the grittiness of human existence. Do they look as good there? Do they REALLY work? Or are they just some pretty ideas someone cooked up that don't really work in the real world?
You write:
"Anything that we assume or believe about the nature of life after death after NDE experiences, based on NDE narratives, are inferences. Do we stay in a state of heavenly bliss? That’s one inference. Do we stay surrounded by loved ones? That’s one inference. Do we stay “awake?” That’s another inference. Is the after death state more real than waking? That’s another inference. Do we go to school? That’s another inference. The reason why this is an important question is that most people interested in NDEs seem to want to use them to make inferences about what the nature of life after death is. I think they mostly use them to justify their own biases, their own world view, and to stay stuck at their own level of development."
I agree with you that there are a lot of unanswered questions here. On the other hand, I also think the thousands of NDEs we now have are pretty strong evidence for universal laws and experiences being at work. And this evidence suggests whether we are atheists, agnostics, fundamentalists, suicide bombers, corrupt politicians, corporate raiders, whatever, our personal belief systems and personal filters are not going to determine how we are judged. Like it or not, we are going to be judged (by ourselves and universal laws) according to how well you have lived and loved. So people spinning, on this side of the fence, what NDEs mean or don't mean is one thing; while what we actually experience, on the other side of the fence, is something else. Apparently, the rules are tightened up there. Here, we can get away with thinking all kinds of ridiculous things. There, what is real, valid, and genuine is more apparent. This doesn't mean things are so tight that everyone experiences the same thing. Just that the basics appear to be more clear -- and then there's room for people at different levels of development to cook up all kinds of imagery to translate these laws into things they can understand and relate to.
You write:
"The Tibetan model isn’t primarily about NDEs. It’s primarily about what happens AFTER NDEs. It does not claim to be based on NDEs. I am not saying it is an accurate model. I am saying that it is talking about something different than NDEs and that to compare them to NDEs is to compare apples and oranges."
I think that's the problem. The Tibetan model doesn't include NDEs because NDEs are primarily concerned with love and relationships, engaging the world, having things to do and accomplish, a personal God that is keeping an eye on us. It's not an issue of before and after, it's an issue of omitting the heart and soul of life. The Tibetan system apparently thinks it's mostly about returning to the impersonal, Ground of Being while NDEs suggest, no, the Ground of Being is part of it, but there's more going on than that.
You write:
"Where I would differ would be that it seems reasonable to me that only people who are much better meditators than I am maintain wakefulness after the NDE fades."
Joseph, you seem to place a lot of emphasis on meditative states and other inner practices. I agree with you than that it is important to cultivate awareness, but do not agree that mediation is the only, or even the primary way to do this. In fact, we both know that meditation doesn't touch shadow material -- and can also tend to make a person think they are highly developed (because they can have deep spiritual experiences) when, in fact, they are just the opposite, with all manner of holes in other areas of their lives. So I would suggest that while meditation and inner work is important, the rubber meets the road in how well (and deeply) we are engaged with other human beings. If we are able to become truly, deeply loving beings, then that is what allows us to wake up and proceed from one level to the next without being recycled. In my mind, meditation, alone, if not integrated with loving action in the world, is a sure ticket back to try again.
In other words, I think our ability to love and be present, in a healthy, non-dysfunctional way with other human beings is a better indication of our overall development than meditative states and inner conditions, which, again, can lead us to mistakenly believe we are more developed than we really are.
You write:
"I also think that to generalize the Eastern view as cyclical in the sense that it is not evolutionary is about as accurate as to generalize the Western view as linear in the sense that nothing repeats."
I know I'm painting with broad strokes. I do, however, continue to believe, as I've said before, that the West is more in touch with the evolutionary impulse than the East is. That's why the theory of evolution, shadow work, and people like Jesus, who apparently focused on attaining Kingdom of God states through love, relationships, community, have emerged from the West.
You write:
"When we are dreaming, dreams are real. It is only when we go lucid or wake up that we say, “I was dreaming!” So this does seem to be the human predicament. Is there any time, any state, whether alive or dead, when we cannot or do not wake up and say, “I was dreaming!” I doubt that we are any more alive after we are dead than when we were alive."
I agree with you that life does seem to be a series of awakenings. We might see the awakenings a little differently. I view each new awakening as an increased level of awareness. So, yes, our awareness is deepened and expanded when we wake up from the physical world into the astral world, and deepened/expanded again, when we wake up from the astral world to the casual world. On and on. That's how it seems to work in small ways -- in our day-to-day earthly life; and in big ways, moving from one realm to the next. Of course, it probably doesn't work that way in reality, since time and linear processes appear to be inventions of the mind. But that's how we seem to experience it.
You write:
"I agree with you that Jesus represents some kind of universal, archetypal energy. I have no doubt about that. It’s an energy that we all need and that is a sacred energy, an embodiment of the sacred. Where I get radical is when people start making exclusive claims for that energy. When they do that they are putting limits on spirit, and that is a very non-spiritual thing to do."
I agree with you here, Joseph. Jesus is important, but all the other guys and gals on the bus need to be acknowledged and also have important contributions to make.
You write:
"Thanks for your comments and your dialogue, David! I hope other folks are following this and will chime in with their comments!"
Me, too, especially considering how long it has taken to respond to each other's posts!
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Dillard on
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Dear David,
Thanks for the great summary of 2nd person divinity! Having a personal relationship with a personal God that loves us is what the I-Thou relationship is all about and, when we no longer need, on a deep emotional level, reassurance or rescuing, we are less likely to be presented by images of reassurance or salvation by saviors. That doesn’t mean we don’t have an I-Thou relationship; a real one is the result of cultivating spiritual interdependency rather than our own emptiness provoking spiritual dependency.
The real question is, how do we cultivate the objectivity to tell the difference without seeming cold and mistrusting to those who prefer to trust their own intuition?
I agree when you write that what counts is the application of an idea. We disagree in that my emphasis is on the application I make of the idea in my life, primarily, because I may not know the source of an idea or I may have a mistaken conception of the source of an idea. You place more emphasis on the results in the life of the person who promotes the idea.
David, have you talked about any of these issues with any Tibetan Buddhist monks or teachers? There’s a group in Prescott as well as Scottsdale, and you could easily ask them about these things via email. Based on the Tibetan Buddhist monks and teachers I’ve known, your description is about as embarrassingly stereotypical as a humanist’s description of all Christians as fundamentalists. The concept of karuna, or compassion, is a basic Tibetan teaching. It involves establishing an I-Thou relationship with all sentient beings. These people seek out I-Thou relationships with personifications with this or that aspect of divinity, deities called Bodhisattvas. The NDE’s that they do have probably involve I-Thou relationships with Maitreya, Avalokitesvara, Manjusri, and Buddha.
I am not suggesting that meditation is the only way or even the primary vehicle of growth. I fully agree with you that loving kindness and selfless service generate both healing and growth. However, just as a “We” approach to divinity takes you to places that “I” and “It” places do not and cannot, so “I” and “It” forms of divinity take you to places that “We” approaches do not. Otherwise, why would we need all three?
My argument is to not disparage any of these three approaches, but to hold them as being of equal importance. I’ve never claimed that meditating is the only or primary way to cultivate awareness. I am hearing you attempting to make a case that “We” approaches to the divine should be or need to be emphasized more than or over “I” or “it” approaches to divinity. Is that correct? If so, that may be due to a fear you have that if people focus on the other two approaches they will neglect the third and become ego-centric and self-absorbed. This certainly occurs, as we all know. While this is always a danger, it seems to me that is no reason to de-emphasize two legs of a three-legged stool. We need all three types. If love and I-Thou were all that was required, then we wouldn’t need the other two approaches at all. Is that your position?
I tend to be an equal-opportunity cynic, meaning that I am not nearly as impressed by Jesus and other teachers of I-Thou as you seem to be. Clearly, Jesus’ concept of universal love didn’t extend to demons:
Matthew 4:23-25: demon-possessed persons are healed by Jesus (also Luke 6:17-19); Matthew 8:16-17: Jesus heals many demon-possessed ones (also Mark 1:32-34 and Luke 4:40-41); Matthew 8:28-34: Jesus sends a herd of demons from two men into a herd of pigs (also Mark 5:1-20 and Luke 8:26-39, both referring to only one man); Matthew 9:32-34: Jesus makes a dumb speak (also Mark 3:20-22); Matthew 12:22-28: Jesus heals a possessed blind and dumb man (also Luke 6:17-19 and Luke 11:14); Matthew 12:43-45: Jesus tells an allegory of nasty spirits coming back home, that is the human body where have lived before (also Luke 11:24-26); Matthew 15:21-28: Jesus expels a demon from the body of the daughter of a Canaanite woman (also Mark 7:24-30); Matthew 17:14-21: Jesus heals a lunatic by driving out a demon from him (also Mark 9:13-29 and Luke 9:37-43); Mark 1:21-28: Jesus expels a nasty spirit from a man (also Luke 4:31-37); Mark 1:32-34: Jesus heals many demon-possessed people; Luke 7:21: Many people is cleansed from evil spirits by Jesus; Luke 13:10-17: Jesus expels Satan in the form of a spirit of disease from the body of a woman. The Gospel of John does not mention any case of demonic possession, and some healings in the name of Jesus are mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, but no allusion to demon possession is made. There are two references, one in Mark 6:13, mentioning that the twelve apostles expelled demons in the name of Jesus, and another in Luke 9:49 referring to a non-follower of Jesus that did the same in his name. Note that in the Gospels demonic possession is taken as responsible for physical and mental disease, like in more ancient cultures.
What Jesus’ clear belief in demons implies is that he was a dualist. That means he believed in evil as much as he believed in love. Hmmmmm....
So much for seeing the divine in everything...
Such passages are often justified by saying that evil is real and that it must be fought, for the sake of love. The only problem with this approach is that it justifies beating people with whips, war, inquisitions, and torture.
Are you taking into sufficient consideration the dark side of the account of Jesus’ life that has come down to us? Is it credible to write all those off to scriptural add-ons while only saying the parts we like are authentic and valid?
Thanks,
Joseph
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Permalink Reply by David Sunfellow on
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Joseph, you're full of great points, counterpoints, and juicy questions.
Have I ever sat down and talked with genuine Buddhist teachers? No. The closest I've come is watching, reading and listening to Buddhist popularizers like the Dalai Lama and Robert Thurman, reading various Buddhist overviews on the Net, and monitoring the endless conversations taking place in the integral world concerning Buddhist theory and practice (seems like 95 percent of the integral world is composed of Americans and Europeans who have replaced Christianity with Buddhism as their spiritual mother ship). Most of these folks seem to be pretty plugged in to all things Buddhism, but I realize Buddhism, like Christianity, has a gazillion different sects, so perhaps I'm overlooking the big picture here that you, as a legitimate academic and teacher of world religions, are more aware of than I am.
Concerning the I-Thou issue: I've been operating on the assumption that most Buddhists are atheists. They do not believe in a personal God. They do not believe that there is a personalized spiritual force that is watching over them, helping them out, aware of "every hair on their heads", and generally loving them in a very personal, hands-on kind of way. Am I wrong about this? I know compassion is a huge part of Buddhism and thus forming I-Thou relationships with other sentient beings is an important part of the program. But that's a different question in my mind. I assume some Buddhist sects probably believe in a personal 2nd-Person God, but if so, they are probably the exception to the general thrust of Buddhism. Am I wrong about this?
Concerning God in three persons, yes, I think it is important to acknowledge and integrate all three aspects. I will, however, own up to feeling that the personal aspect of God, which also ties into the "We" space versus the "I" and "It" space is, in this world anyway, more important than the other two. I could be grievously wrong about this, but at this point, I don't think so. In this realm, and probably in the next (the Astral), I think the God of love, caring, focusing on others, of building I-Thou relationships, of shadow work and development, is closer to the purpose of life at these levels of existence than the I and It God, who could be more important on other levels of existence, or other parts of our journey -- before and after, for example, our current stage. I'm guessing here and could be wrong.
Concerning Jesus: I think 80 percent or more of the words and deeds attributed to Jesus in the New Testament is a bunch of baloney. I'm willing to out on a limb and say I think Q1 (not Q2 and Q3) are about as close to Jesus as we are going to get (unless Q itself, or another text that predates it, pops up somewhere). Even with a radically cleaned up Jesus, I still think we've got some problems. For example, it seems pretty clear that Jesus was focused mainly on the Jews -- on not on the Gentiles. So while he thoroughly stretched the boundaries in his own culture, I'm not sure he made the leap to the rest of humankind. This, I think, is evident in how much trouble Paul caused the disciples of Jesus when he wanted to take the message to the Gentiles. So while I think Jesus was an embodiment of the God of relationships and evolution, I don't think he was necessarily full blown. More like a seed. Or little plant. Or small tree that was complete, in itself, but still had a lot of growing and expanding to do in order to become truly full blown.
Over and out.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Dillard on
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Dear David,
You wrote: “Concerning the I-Thou issue: I've been operating on the assumption that most Buddhists are atheists. They do not believe in a personal God. They do not believe that there is a personalized spiritual force that is watching over them, helping them out, aware of "every hair on their heads", and generally loving them in a very personal, hands-on kind of way. Am I wrong about this?”
The thing to remember about Buddhism is that Buddhists are at different stages of development and practice, just like Christians. Most Buddhists I talk to, including Tibetan Buddhists, talk about a self, a self, Gods, and Gods. Most Tibetan Buddhists worship various incarnations of God. The difference is where the teaching tops off. In Christianity, monotheism and worship of one God is the top. You don’t get beyond that. This is what we would call an I-Thou level, where one ultimately merges with divinity. It’s what Wilber calls a subtle level spirituality. Buddhists and Wilber recognize a level beyond this that most Christians do not, the causal. So they will worship God and talk about a real self, but when pressed, they will say that these are not real. This is something most Christians can’t or won’t do. So most Buddhists have nothing against subtle level spirituality and many of them practice it. But some aspire to a spirituality that they believe transcends and includes (with imphasis on the includes part) subtle level spirituality. But all or essential. It’s like saying it’s better to be an emotional, thinking being that eats than just an eating machine. Everyone needs to eat, but it’s better to be someone who thinks and eats as well as eats.
I applaud your emphasis on the “We” face of Divinity and I hope more and more people surf on your passion and wake up to its importance.
I agree with your assessment of Jesus. I think he was a saiint, in that he was extraordinarily loving, and what we might call a yogi, in that he was a master of transmuting energies on the first transpersonal or energic level. I also think that Wilber’s point that any enlightenment is conditioned by its context applies to him. That means that if Jesus were alive today that he would have a greater enlightenment than he did when he lived, because the context is broader. Consequently, that means that you have the ability to attain an enlightenment greater than the one Jesus attained, and to do so much more easily. I’m convinced that you already could teach Jesus a thing or two if he got to know you....
blessings, Joseph
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